5 years, 4 months ago-
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@i have a question. If one were trying to start a strain. Assume for this question we mated two similar but unrelated fowl. Now we have inbred the best of the stags to the two best sister pullets. Maybe we bred brother to sister twice to concentrate the gene pool. So we are ready to start our line breed.
If we start with a stag and two hens which are his sisters, if we single mate and keep them separate, we would hope to establish two lines of the same family to allow spiral line crossing later. Am I right so far?
So if we put the same rooster and two hens or three that were his sisters; would the fact they would lay in each other’s nests on occasion provide enough diversification to keep the family going in a pen mating situation. Obviously you could only pedigree the male side. Just a question I was curious about.
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@I realized my question is flawed. It should have read that if we put the same rooster and two or three hens that were his sister in the same pen……
i apologize
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First of all, I would use single mating as a rule. However, if I was going to create a strain, and use inbreeding to clean up and tighten the gene pool, the only thing I would be worried about is to get as many offspring on the ground as possible. Breeding brother to sister, or sisters, you will get about a third of te offspring that are really bad, a third that are ok, but not great, and a third that are exceptional. You are going to cull the bad and the ok birds and select the few standouts that are not only exceptional, but are healthy and free of defects. By the time you are done (when the birds are 18 + months of age) you will only be left with 10% or less of the offspring. Did I answer you question?
I go much more in-depth in the “Founders Programs” where I talk about the “Fixity of Traits and inbreeding.”
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@Thank you very much
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@Well Guys I read A LOT !!! and I have came up with a Flow chart. This is how I look at the Line Breeding Program. I would like you guys to look at it and tell me if I am right or wrong. This is a Line Breeding chart.
Thanks Lannie
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Hey Lannie,
It looks to be a good beginning to a proper breeding method (outcrossing, inbreeding and line-breeding), but I’m concerned with the infusion part. And I believe you are creating your sub-lines too early in the process. When you start your line-breeding, that is when you will establish your multiple lines within the same family. Line A, B, C.
Once you reach 7/8 or 15/16 you will do a line-cross of the 3 lines, using a clan-mating (spiral) type method for the infusion. This clan-mating method will allow you to create new lines without infusing outside blood.
Simply take your best cock/stag (which ever is better) from line A, and breed it to the hens in line B. Take the best cock/stag from line B, and breed it to the hens in line C. Now breed the best cock/stag in line C, and breed it to the hens in line A. These will now be your new lines. This will improve genetic diversity, vigor, and will keep the family pure. You can do this forever!
As your family progresses, we will set you up with an Improvement Program.
I also am concerned about using pullets as breeders. I like to wait until they are fully matured (18 to 24 months) before I breed them. (I have a course that will address that topic, and will post it in the near future).
I hope I’m understanding your chart correctly. To evaluate it properly, I will need more information about your strain, such as the seed fowl, whats the difference between with the 2 sub-lines, and where do you plan to go at the end (7/8 or 15/16)? I may need more information, but I’m still leaning towards using the Founders Program. When we talk on the phone, I will know better where you will need to go, and what program is best for your strain. I may even set you up with a customized program.
You are on the right track, I would just like to tweak it a bit, and make it a complete program.
Selection will be very important here, and will make all the difference.
Make sure to post pictures in the forum from time to time so that I can see your progress.
very good conversation!
Kenny Troiano
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@What would be the best route to go for consistent offspring if I had a “Nick” out of a cross? Would you breed the offspring in a brother-sister mating and start setting the genes to make new lines and set the cross as a family or would you just keep line breeding to the parents so you could keep making that cross? The “Nick” would come from an out cross.
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Hey Cosmes,
That is a great question! Yes, it is possible to create a uniform and consistant strain with the fowl you have.
I would use the “Founders Program” (located in the Available Programs page). I would follow that program, which is laid out as a step by step process. The Founders Program is perfect for that situation. If fact, most breeders just getting started are forced to start this way.
Begin by reading over the Founder Program pdf Study Guide. This will prime your mind and get you in the right flow. Then follow the program itself. It also has specialty courses, such as Inbreeding and line breeding to help you understand better.
If you have any questions, please let me know!
I want to make sure everything is crystal clear, and I can help you through the process. Also, this will help me to make sure the program is easy to understand to all – and complete.
again, make sure to let me know if you have any questions.
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@Hello , i have a question i made a cross of 2 different green leg hatch types i then line bred to the hen side until i reached 7/8 and kept a cock from that mating as my brood cock . i bred that (7/8 cock) one time back to his mother and kept 2 15/16 hens then crossed them to the (7/8 cock ) and i kept 1 bull stag and 4 hens from one (15/16sister ) and only 1 hen from the other (15/16 sister) that now is showing a different color eye and rye tail and will be culled, my brood cock passed and also the mother to the stag so now im left with brother sister matings can this line be saved by inbreeding ?
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